WEBVTT
00:00:00.479 --> 00:00:08.800
It seems strange to see a king destroying a nation and laying waste a country for mere sordid money's sake.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:11.679
And solely and only for that.
00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:34.399
Who was King Leopold II?
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:36.399
Where was he a king of?
00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:39.200
And uh what's going on with him?
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:45.119
This is he's from Belgium, and this is the mid to late 1800s.
00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:49.679
And I think it's important to understand what was going on in the world.
00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:53.759
So where he was coming from, just set setting the scene.
00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.640
So, first of all, he was related to Queen Victoria of England.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:01.119
Uh, she thought he was really boring.
00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:08.239
She liked his wife, but no, really, like she told people to the effect that he was really boring.
00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:14.159
She went around and was like, you know what, King Leopold II, that guy, snoozer.
00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:15.200
The worst.
00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:23.760
No, um, but yeah, she she liked his wife though, which incidentally he didn't like his wife, but you know, that's that's a story for another time.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:31.120
His sister became Empress of Mexico, and she was Austrian, so that's a fun story.
00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.480
Well, this is very this sounds like people are getting around a lot here.
00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.159
Well, they really are.
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:59.200
Like relatives were connected everywhere in places of power, but I think what's really important to look at here is there were a lot of kings, queens, you know, what we would look at as like the executive branch, and then like they were just kind of testing out all over the world how a constitutional monarchy would work.
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:19.520
And you see it in Germany, and you see it in England and Belgium, and oh my gosh, the United States was just chaos because that was the end of the Civil War, and it was like, well, who knows what's happening, especially since half of the country called it the war of northern aggression, and some people still do.
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:21.840
I mean, it it was, right?
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.439
Yeah, they were very aggressive.
00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:24.560
They were.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:27.840
I being from the south, I feel like I was aggressed upon.
00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:29.199
Yeah, I was oppressed.
00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:29.759
Yes.
00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:38.960
Well, it is it is interesting to look at the different names that people give wars.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:45.280
For example, which we're gonna talk about soon, the opium war, which was, of course, over opium.
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:48.960
Um the Chinese prefer to call it the Anglo-Chinese War.
00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:50.639
Uh scene for scene.
00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:51.120
Yeah.
00:02:51.120 --> 00:03:00.000
So, you know, you have the Spanish-American War, and the Spanish are like, yeah, this was the year of devastation or something like that.
00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.000
It's so really it depends on which side of the word you're on as to what you would call it.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.120
Yeah, everyone has like their own thing going on.
00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:11.280
But we have with Leopold the same type thing.
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:19.840
There were he had a cabinet and a parliament underneath him, and they actually had more power than in a lot of places.
00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:36.879
There was actually a parade once in Belgium, if you turned to Wilhelm, the Kaiser of Germany, and said, There's really nothing left for us kings but money, because he was just frustrated that parliament wouldn't pass some of the military things he wanted passed.
00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:41.039
But under him, a lot of reforms did happen.
00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.360
They were passed by parliament and the cabinet.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:47.360
And of course, different parties were in charge at different times.
00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:55.120
The Labor Party, the Conservative Party, the Labor Party was all for, you know, public education, free for everyone.
00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:57.360
Conservatives, not so much.
00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:00.240
Um, so it only lasted about four years in there.
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:07.919
But while he was king, there became the the work week that they got Sundays off.
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:16.079
And he instituted or were instituted child labor laws and uh for in factories and things.
00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:23.519
And he um and there were also well, universal male suffrage happened under his time.
00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:31.360
And we need to see, like, in the world at that time, you know, I I just talked about factories and stuff.
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.720
This was around the time that the second industrial revolution was happening.
00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:43.759
The first one was with textiles and just beginning to get the factory process started.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:57.839
Um, but there was a lot of you know problems within countries all over the world because they were getting to the point of mass production and chemicals and electricity.
00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:03.120
And so that's why the factory reforms meant so much.
00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:08.399
He was called the Builder King because, well, he built a lot of stuff.
00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.639
He built statues of himself.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:17.839
As one does, as one is want to do, and museums and a cathedral.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:27.519
So when we look at him, we're looking at basically an executive branch guy who isn't happy with Parliament and the cabinet.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:37.519
They wouldn't pass some of the military things that he wanted passed, was looking for a way to make more money for himself, just himself, not to share with Belgium or anything.
00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:42.000
And so that's the context that we have Leopold in right now.
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:47.920
So a guy who was, yeah, sounds like he was doing quite a bit of good things back home.
00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:49.680
They were getting done under him.
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:52.720
Okay, so so maybe he doesn't deserve all the credit.
00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:55.519
Uh he you have a parliament that's doing a lot of the and cabinet.
00:05:55.519 --> 00:05:59.439
But but he's the guy, he's the he's the figurehead, and things are going okay.
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:08.800
But he said he looks around and says, Man, I've got a lot of great stuff and I've got a lot of great statues, but what I really could use is some more money.
00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:09.839
Yes.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:20.399
And the way he sought to get that was through getting colonies, which a lot of countries had around the world, a lot of European countries.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:28.319
Africa, like even in 1870, was owned, like 80% of it was under African rule.
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:33.439
They didn't have like the colonies and things that they had like right before World War I.
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.680
So he saw going in there into Africa as making a colony.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:48.720
In fact, he uh he told the Belgian people, um, quote, the homeland may be our headquarters, but our objective must be the world.
00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:53.040
There are no small countries, there are only small minds.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:59.600
When people are great, they can, no matter how narrow the boundaries, achieve great things.
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:06.879
So, lucky for Leopold, that was a common theme around the world in Europe.
00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:15.759
And in 1884, Ottawa and Bismarck, who was from Germany, set up a conference in Berlin.
00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:27.600
Now, Germany at this time was kind of in the same boat where it's a small country, it's mainly landlocked, and they were also trying to get colonies.
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:38.319
Uh, Belgium had only been a constitutional monarchy since like the 1850s, and Germany was just getting established in the early 1870s.
00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.319
So they were kind of in the same boat.
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:49.839
Bismarck, who we'll talk about, I'm sure, at some point, people make him like say he's responsible for the treaties and things that started World War I.
00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:52.240
So he he was very involved in this.
00:07:52.240 --> 00:08:00.720
They called, like, I think 14 white men to come carve up Africa into different territories.
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:13.920
And what Leopold said to an aide, I think when he was in London, was quote, I do not want to miss a good chance of getting a slice of this magnificent African cake.
00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:22.319
So he sent someone to the Berlin conference to go carve out a piece of this for Belgium.
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:30.480
So at the time, it sounds like was this mostly the European powers getting together and deciding that, hey, you know what?
00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:33.519
It it's time to make colonies because that's where it's at.
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:34.799
Um, yeah.
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:42.960
Russia was there, but you know, not not too much of the Asian, definitely, you know, not Canada.
00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:47.120
It was under Great Britain, you know, Greenland, no part of it.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:48.000
All right, it's a good thing.
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:49.039
Canada's clear.
00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:49.840
Like, nope, nope.
00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:50.960
And Greenland.
00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:51.759
Uh Greenland.
00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:51.919
Yeah.
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:52.480
Okay, right.
00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:52.960
Absolutely.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:58.000
Just want to make it clear that those guys were not involved in this carving up the African cake situation.
00:08:58.240 --> 00:08:58.559
Right.
00:08:58.799 --> 00:08:59.039
Okay.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:08:59.679
Yes.
00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:00.480
All right.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.360
So they went, they went into the conference.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.360
What did Leopold get his cake?
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:10.480
I'm assuming since since this is the show about Leopold and he he got something out of it.
00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:11.840
What what did he get?
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:21.919
Well, so he sent uh a guy, Henry Morton Stanley, whose real name was John Rollins, but he changed it because he thought it sounded better.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:23.759
Um Henry Morton Stanley?
00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:24.159
Yes.
00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:25.679
That's like three first names.
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:26.320
Right.
00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:34.320
I I know he was a very interesting guy, very into himself and the things that he had done.
00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:36.159
And it's for in his three first names.
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:37.120
No, that's fantastic.
00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:48.879
Um and he had already gone on an expedition to Africa in I think the early 70s, 18, 1870s, to go look for the Scottish missionary and Dr.
00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:49.759
Um Dr.
00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:51.519
Henry Livingstone.
00:09:51.519 --> 00:10:01.919
And I mean, you y'all may have heard the story of the man who went up and to him and said to the only other white man he'd seen, you know, in days, Dr.
00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:03.759
Livingstone, I presume.
00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:18.240
Well, Henry uh Henry Morton Stanley said that he was the guy that said that, and he's the one that wrote it down, I think, in his uh like I think it's volume one of his expeditions in the dark continent, or one of the many, many things he wrote.
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.480
But he credited himself with saying that.
00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:23.679
So he sounds like a presumptuous guy.
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:25.440
Uh yes.
00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:30.879
But you know, he he had a pretty good well grasp on things.
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:40.559
Well, let me let me read you actually something he wrote to Leopold as he was getting into the Congo, as he was meeting the Congolese people.
00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:41.120
Right.
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:42.799
Oh, quite okay.
00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:58.559
Quote We shall require but mere contact, he wrote, to satisfy the natives that our intentions are pure and honorable, seeking their own good materially and socially, more than our own interests.
00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:06.559
We go to spread blessings, arise from amiable and just intercourse with people who have been strangers to them.
00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:24.639
So this was written by uh published later by uh Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who talked about Stanley and said that he was a hard man, but he he would say what he meant when he wrote things.
00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:50.080
And so it's worth it's worth looking at here that Stanley really was talking, you know, pretty highly of the Africans as he says as he's continu as Stanley's continuing to Leopold, Bolobo is a great center for the ivory and camwood powder trade, principally because its people are so enterprising.
00:11:50.080 --> 00:12:19.919
He continued, these people were really acquainted with many lands and tribes on the upper Congo, from Stanley Pool to Apoto, a distance of 6,000 miles, they knew every landing place on the river banks, all the ups and downs of savage life, all the profits and losses derived from barter, all the diplomatic arts used by tactful savages, were all well known and as well as the Roman alphabet to us.
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.240
No wonder all this commercial knowledge had left its traces on their faces.
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.519
Indeed, it's the same as in our own cities in Europe.
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:34.240
Know you not the military man among you, the lawyer and the merchant, the banker, the artist, or the poet?
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:41.840
It is the same in Africa, more especially on the Congo, where the people are so devoted to trade.
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:52.000
During the few days of our mutual intercourse, they gave us high ideas of their quality, industry after their own style, not being the least conspicuous.
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:52.799
End quote.
00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:58.080
So Stanley sounds like he had a pretty high opinion of the Congolese people.
00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:58.720
Yes.
00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.440
So it sounds like Stanley was doing uh pretty good, pretty good work here.
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.519
What what happened at the the uh the Berlin Conference?
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:18.879
Well, uh Sir Arthur Clunen Doyle, who wrote the Sherlock he was most famous for the Sherlock Holmes books, wrote and published in 1909, The Crime and the Congo.
00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.679
And this is what he said.
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:38.799
Quote, with his chief of treaties in his portfolio, the King of the Belgians now approached the powers with high sentiments of humanitarianism, and with a definite request the state which he was forming should receive some recognized status among the nations.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.000
Was he at this time consciously hypocritical?
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.679
Did he already foresee how widely his future actions would differ from his present professions?
00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:56.879
Is it a problem it is a problem which will interest historians in the future, who may have more materials than upon which we are to form judgment?
00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:07.919
On the one hand, there was a furtive secrecy about the evolution of his plans and the dispatch of his expeditions, which should have no place in philanthropic enterprise.
00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:19.600
On the other hand, there are limits to human powers of deception, and it is almost inconceivable that a man who was acting a part could so completely deceive the whole civilized world.
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:33.120
It is more probable, as it seems to me, that his ambitious mind discerned that it was possible for him to acquire a field of action, which his small kingdom could not give in mixing himself with the affairs of Africa.
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:43.360
He chose the obvious path, that of civilizing and elevating mission, taking the line of least resistance without any definite idea where it might lead him.
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:49.519
Once faced with the facts, his astute brain perceived the great material possibilities of this country.
00:14:49.519 --> 00:15:11.679
His early dreams faded away to be replaced by unscrupulous cupidity, and step by step he was led downward until he, a man of holy aspirations in 1885, stands now in 1909 with such a cloud of terrible direct personal responsibility resting upon him, as no man in modern European history had to bear.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:21.120
Indeed, in it is indeed ludicrous with our knowledge of the outcome to read the declarations of the king and of his representatives at that time.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:34.639
They were actually forming the strictest of commercial monopolies, an organization which was destined to crush out all general private trade in a country as large as the whole of Europe, with Russia omitted.
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:38.000
That was the admitted outcome of their enterprise.
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.679
End quote.
00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.399
He wanted to be a missionary.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:58.000
Yeah, rehabilitate them, give them a better life.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.919
You know, he may have actually meant that at the time.
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:08.159
What Doyle's saying, who was a contemporary, you know, we don't really know what he thought at this time.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.720
We just know that he wanted the Congo.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.639
To to make it better.
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.559
Yes, to make it a better place.
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:17.840
So you mentioned that uh trees were signed.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.840
How how did they get those trees?
00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:26.080
What what was like like what did it look like from the perspective of Congolese people there?
00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:30.399
Um, these these Europeans coming in, uh signing treaties.
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:31.519
What what was that like?
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:32.960
What was life like for them?
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:50.320
Well, so you know, it was hundreds of small villages everywhere, and small groups of white men, mercenaries, Europeans, Belgian generals, and Congolese people they'd already found would come into a village, make a treaty.
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:56.159
If the villagers said, nah, that doesn't sound good to us, well, then sometimes they would just kill them all.
00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:06.799
Um, but a lot of times it was f it was friendly and there were treaties made, you know, you go get rubber for us, go get things for us, and we will give you something in return.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.599
Clothes, food, you know, random things that really meant nothing to the Belgians.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:12.079
Yeah.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:18.319
But so it sounds like the Belgians went in along with did they send any missionaries as well?
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:25.759
Well, so Leopold allowed missionaries from well, they were Dutch missionaries and some from England, some from America.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.599
So, yes, missionaries were there.
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:39.119
So it sounds like, at least when they were first establishing uh presence in the Congo, it sounds like they were just engaging in what you would think of as regular trade.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:43.359
Um yes, well, that was you know the premise of it.
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:47.920
Um we'll talk about in a few minutes uh how a man, E.
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:48.079
D.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.599
Morrell, saw that this was not exactly the case.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:55.119
He worked on the docks and would notice the discrepancies.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:57.119
Uh, but we'll talk about him in a minute.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:08.559
But the Belgiums were mainly looking for rubber, and like I said, a lot of the you know treaties were based on also like how much rubber they were able to get.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:24.720
And because at the time people were beginning to actually be able to mass produce back to the second industrial revolution, tires and for bicycles and automobiles, and rubber was a big thing to have.
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:34.480
And the fact that the um that the Congo had huge jungles of rubber trees provided Leopold with the chance to get that.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:35.599
Gotcha.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.079
So rubber was a valuable resource at that point in time.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:38.880
Yes.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:46.880
And what Leopold did, and I and I say Leopold because this had nothing to do with the Belgian government at all.
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:52.160
He himself never visited the Congo, but it was all under his name.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:58.000
You can trace, you know, there were front organizations all the way down, but everything went back to him.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:13.519
But he set up what was called Force Publique, which was a combination of some Belgium's like military people, armed forces, and uh and a lot from the villages.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:20.240
And in 1885 he said, oh, they're just humanitarians, they're there to help and everything.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:31.920
But that became not the case as different, like missionaries and and people that visited the Congo came back with stories of what it was like.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:42.319
This force had better weapons than anyone else around them, and they had, now I think this is interesting, they used hippo tails as whips.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:48.160
I know that sounds horrible, but evidently they were it was really bad.
00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:49.440
Like one of the worst.
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.400
They would people they would flog people to death with them.
00:19:52.400 --> 00:20:03.359
And anyway, so in 1891, there were about 3,500 of these people, and by 1900 there were 19,000.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:04.720
Well, that's a force.
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:06.160
Yeah, it well, yes.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:08.319
Also a lot of hippo tails.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:17.119
Well, I don't honestly know how many hippo tails they used, but it was an issue for uh for how many the amount of guns.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:24.640
Look, man, if I'm gonna be in the Congo as a humanitarian force publique, I'd better get a hippo tail.
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:25.839
Just saying.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:27.680
Well, okay.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.160
You might have to go try to get that yourself.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.519
But hippo teeth have ivory in them, so maybe you could use the ivory too.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.279
So you get ivory and a tail.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.359
All you have to do is face down a hippo.
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:40.079
Right.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.640
That sounds like a sounds like a story for another time.
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.240
Probably a different podcast.
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:45.039
Totally.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.400
One entirely on hippos because they're my favorite animal.
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:53.279
Um, anyway, and so these stories started coming out.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:05.359
One villager who lived through this, he was talking about what life was like to p to be he was being interviewed after Leopold was no longer in the Congo and it was under the Belgian government.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:05.680
Yeah.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:17.920
He said that the uh that the blacks that were the force publique, quote, wanted to see the number of hands cut off by each soldier who had to bring them in baskets.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:22.880
A village which refused to provide rubber would be completely swept clean.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:36.160
As a young man, um, then guarding the village of Boeka, I saw him take a net, put ten arrested natives in it, attach big stones to the net, and make it tumble into the river.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.400
Rubber causes these torments.
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.519
That's why we no longer want to hear its name spoken.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.160
Soldiers made young men kill or rape their own mothers and sisters.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:47.200
End quote.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:51.839
And it's you know, it just it gets worse um from there.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:53.759
I yes it gets worse.
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:54.480
Oh yeah.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.039
So what what were these hands about?
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:00.480
Okay, well, we were talking about bullets.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.640
They were with the guns.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.519
You know, you you asked about um hippo tails and stuff.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:06.799
And yeah, okay.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.720
So they actually counted how many bullets were used, right?
00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:17.599
Okay, well, I have this quote from a report done um that we'll talk about in a minute by um a Mr.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.839
Casement uh for Britain.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:29.119
But one of the passages in it um that he saw from a diary said, quote, each time the corporal goes out to get rubber, cartridges are given to him.
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:34.880
He must bring back all not used, and for everyone used, he must bring back a right hand.
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:41.519
They told me that sometimes they shot a cartridge at an animal in hunting, then cut off the hand of a living man.